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captions by: caption colorado, llc (800) 775-7838 from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over two decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. "the mclaughlin group" is brought to you by mississippi development authority. visit to see what we can do for you. this conference it is really crucial. we still have time to avoid the worse of the consequences of this catechism that's now unfolding. but we don't have a lot of time. >> the catechism vice president gore refers to is the climate phenomenon known as global warming. the melting of the polar ice caps and the consequent rising
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in sea levels with their sustained fury and tidal waves. to avert such a catechism, world leaders will meet in denmark december 7 for the copenhagen climate change conference. the goal is to forge a sweeping agreement that will bind the entire planet to cut toxic carbon emissions that most scientists believe cause blobl warming. eyes will be especially focused on two world powers, china and the u.s. combined, these two super powers produce almost half of the world's pollution. 40%. last june, the u.s. house of representatives voted yes on a climate change bill. that bill commits to reducing u.s. carbon emissions by 80% over the next 40 years. the senate has yet to pass the bill. this means the u.s. in ten days could go to keepen hagen empty
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handed unless the senate puts the pedal to the metal and moves this legislation forward. president obama has already signed on. >> the this issue are over. >> question. if the u.s. does agree to sign a kobeen hagen agreement, what impact will that have on u.s. jobs, pat buchanan? >> i don't think it will have any impact, john, because i don't think it will get through the united states senate. there's a reason for that, john. al gore's moment has come and gone. the truth is, they are changing the nile to climate change rather than global warming for a reason. for ten years, the earth has been cooling. 1998 or so was the hottest year. the polar bear population is doing fine. antarctica is growing, the ice cap is growing. the arctic ice cap has stopped shrinking. you look around the united states, you are having record cold trends. you have this tremendous real problem in the american economy as opposed toed mythical
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problem of global warming. for these reasons, john, i think it's not going to get through the senate. i think, as i say, al gore's moment has passed. this whole thing was a bit of a hoax designed to transfer power from individuals and wealth to governments and from governments to transnational, international corporations, global institutions. that time has come, and it has gone. >> eleanor? >> that was both a minority view and paranormic view that it's all a conspiracy to transfer power. al gore's moment has heralded the moment we're now in. you have troika in the u.s. senate, lindsey graham, senator joe lieberman have joined together to work to get a bill that could get the 60 votes needed in the u.s. senate. it's not going to happen by the time the president goes to copenhagen, but serious work on understanding how to address the impact of climate change is underway. and the president will
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negotiate not a treaty but some sort of a framework. the big issue is how much money are the rich nations going to be willing to pony up to help the poor nations weather already the negative effects of climate change? >> eleanor just backed up pat's whole argument that this is all about wealth redistribution globally. first of all there is a growing body, a very skeptical science about climate change and whether or not it is man made. a lot of scientists are saying the climate change we're seeing is due to solar flares and waves and that kind of thing coming from the sun, which we have no control over. secondary, you can't have an effective carbon emissions treaty if the two biggest growing industrial powers, china and india, do not sign on. they've indicated they have no intentions of quashing their economic growth by going down this road. the other point, too, is that the nations in western europe that already have cap and trade to try to control carbon
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output, there has been no limitations on carbon output. it's essentially wrecked their economies or at least stunted their economic growth while not controlling the carbon emissions. finally, domestically here in the united states, i'm not so sure that they can get those 60 votes in the senate. you have a lot of democrats both in the house and the senate coming from coal- producing states like j. rock feller in west virginia saying he's totally opposed to this. even now president obama's starting to back off. >> what about the science, clarence? >> i'm glad you brought that up, john. the real reason why the debate has shifted, if you will, from global warming to climate change is because of the growing consensus as you just said, monica, there's a little question that there is warming going on. it's a question of how much do humans have to do with it. that's a big shift. that's what the treaty debate is about. do you have to lose jobs or are we talking about converting jobs? are we talking about automobiles that emit less? are we talking new kinds of
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solar energy, et cetera? you're right, china and india have been slow to get on board here, but they are getting on board. go to beijing these days, you can hardly breathe. it's just so platantly obvious. >> they don't want to -- >> it's part of the climate change debate. >> they're on board verbally. >> that's no treaty that exists. >> a treaty could come out of copenhagen? >> that's right. >> and they don't want to sign that? >> i do enterthink either one of them do nor do we. >> chinese are realists. hair not into this theology and nonsense that the west is into. >> they are going higher than the united states in their reduction. 20% versus our 15%. >> they've got pollution that's choking people which is serious pollution. this carbon dioxide stuff, john, they are not going to get a board on that. they're not going to stunt their growth to go along what these already mature countries have done. >> where do you think carbon
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dioxide comes from, though, the heavy pollution? they realize their growth has been so tremendous over in china, they realize they've got to do something long range in order to stop -- >> the chinese populations achieved all of the conveniences we have inp this country. the planet will absolutely drawn. i think there is that recognition, but they have an argument that we proceed on a low-cost energy oil economy for years and we've gotten way ahead. they want time to catch up. >> why did michael crichton the novelist, why did he raise such havoc with this issue? >> because michael crichton was a paranoid who made millions off writing paranoid novels. it's always about mankind's good technology going wrong whether it's dinosaurs or pollution or the -- >> he attacked the global warming science. >> yes, but was wrong. >> and he gave a speech at the
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national press club. why did he do that? >> an overwhelming preponderance consensus is on the fact that the man et is -- >> that's changing. >> man's activity, though -- [ all talking at once ] >> quickly. >> you know, john -- [ all talking at once ] >> it was warming, john. it has not been warming since '98. it's no known proof it's because of man. >> is there any political -- [ all talking at once ] >> no known proof there's god, either. how much proof do you need, pat? >> let me get this question in then? >> pat, please relinquish, pat. stop baiting the ladies. is there any political muscle behind this? in other words, is the voter, the average voter going to vote for or against a politician by reason of that politician's standing on the subject of global warming? >> the left in the environmentalists will vote on
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it because it is a religious thing for them. >> is it a bullet issue? >> there's also economic power. >> is it a bullet issue? >> yes it is. >> a determinant issue? >> just like gun control. for a small group it is. >> really, like gun control? of that magnitude? [ all talking at once ] >> all right. let her in. >> i would say pat is right on that. i think the broader base of voters, actually, i think it does mobilize conservatives and independents as well. a cap and trade bill will be tant mount to the miss history of the world as an enormous job killer. you're look agent 10.2% unemployment had this country. >> evangelical republicans care about the stewwardship of the planet. they are supportive on this issue. >> i think there's less on this issue. >> might evangelical -- >> pat? >> i do. >> less on this issue than there is, you understand?
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exit question. which is better for the united states, to sign on to copenhagen if it develop hes into a treaty or let copenhagen fail? >> i think i'm with rush on this one. >> rush who? >> rush limbaugh, we hope it fails. >> what about beck? >> what about beck? >> he's totally opposed. >> quickly. >> the u.s. and china should be leaders in copenhagen, and the u.s. should definitely sign on to whatever framework emerges. >> i think obama ideologically would like to sign on. he's even backing away from it. it's going to fail. in this economic climate, it should fail. >> i think it's best for it to pass because we do need to show leadership. this debate's been going on for 40 years since earth day at least. there is a consensus moving toward it not just extremists anymore. >> i don't think we should sign it because if there is a treaty and if there is a rush towards green technology it will mean technology and the technology
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will be developed by china and india. the lowest bidders, and our jobless situation will be worsened. when we come back. dr. no. he's an m.d. and a republican. when planning for retirement these days, the forecast is full of ifs. if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity.
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♪[music] ♪ clumsy effort, mr. bond. you disappoint me. >> look at what we've done in the past. i don't think you can trust us with health care. the highway trust fund's broke, fanny mae's broke, freddie mac's broke, medicare's broke, medicaid's broke. the country's broke. >> tom coburn republican senator from oklahoma and medical doctor, md.
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j is tom coburn also called dr. no? answer? he says no a lot. even keeps a sign above his office desk with a single word printed on it, no. coburn was elected to the senate five years ago. he is a master of exactitude, delay, and some say principled opposition. >> we don't have plenty of money in the checkbook to do it. what we have is an uplimited credit card ha we keep putting the credit card into the machine and say we'll take now and our kids will pay later. >> in the last five years, senator coburn has filed 508 amendments to legislation, the second most of any senator. most of these amendments were intended to block legislation that coburn believes is bad for the country. as a family physician, coburn knows firsthand the cost of president obama's health insurance bill. his overall judgment is that the obama bill would cause the
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country quote unquote fiscal ruin. coburn is threatening to stage a filibuster in the senate during which either he or the clerk of the senate would read aloud the entire 2,000 page bill. then as needed, senator coburn would lib endlessly after that. question. suppose dr. coburn reads aloud in the house chamber after 2,000 pages of the health care bill. should c-span broadcast gavel to gavel dr. coburn's filly buster? >> i think even c-span might worry about losing its audience. senator coburn does get some respect for his willingness to always stand up on principle and to oppose to anything that he thinks is gonna risk raising the deficit. he's now picked the wrong bill. he's put a hold on a bill that would give veterans from iraq and afghanistan and their care givers help that they
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desperately need. he is the only senator who opposes it, and he's getting a lot of heat from other republicans. you know what democrats call him? they call him mr. leader because the republican leader mitch mcconnell cannot control him. he is a one-man band, and his judgment, even though you praised him in the context of health care reform, his judgments are so indiosyncratic that they really do not have -- >> i completely disagree with this. i think he is on the pulse of the american people right now. the american people are expressing grave concerns over a ballooning deficit and exploding debt. and he is up there. thank god he is up on capitol hill holding up the hand saying no to this out-of-control spending. that's where the yort of the american people are right now. if he stands on the senator floor and goes through with the reading of the 2,000 page bill, then we'll at least know that one senator has actually read it because he will have read it through. >> mm-hmm. >> by the way there is no
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actual senate bill as we speak. it is a phantom bill, a vapor bill. he's even waiting on that. >> by the way, the measure stands about that high. >> in the house. >> it is a very principled politician. he is the economic conscience of the republican party. he has replaced the late great jesse helms who on one side and teddy kennedy on the other were the most effective senators for the respective parties in the last quarter century. and i think john, our late friend robert novak, he thought that coburn was really a genuine national asset and one of the most guys who deserves the respect he gets. >> one of the problems with the health legislation is it becomes an entitlement and practically stay as live throughout its whole career. you can't pull it back. you can't get it out of the system. >> right. >> this is an historic event. >> oh, yeah, absolutely. >> i think tomko burn is not as
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effective as jesse helps yet. that's the problem. does he express concerns of the republican mainstream but his actions fit more with the fringe. >> is he respected by his peers? >> you don't have to be respected to be effective. >> does he know how to play the indid -- did z. he know about the inside game what teddy kennedy would call the inside game? >> i would say no. >> he's seen as an odd ball basically. an appealing odd ball because then senator barack obama had a friendship going with him. >> right. >> a lot -- exit question. hold on. >> the republican party are resistant to him because he won't go down the road of earmarks. a lot of republicans go down that road, too, and he is absolutely right. >> exit question. could coburn's filibuster kill health care in the senate. pat bu cannen? >> no, the question is the democrats. if they've got their 60
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senators on board, they will get health care but they have to get rid of the public option, keep the abortion language in there keep the immigration thing out of there. they can do it, but they are not there yet. >> if they've got 60 votes, coburn is irrelevant. >> okay. >> but i think coburn's position is gaining more and more traction. if he really takes to the senate floor, he'll raise the hackles of the american people, which are already raised. >> i agree with pat from the other side. i think we theed a public option from a robust bill. the biggest thing is not republicans the democrats. >> the answer is yes, if he can galvanize public support. that's where the pressure could issue three. prisoner of habit. ♪ [music] ♪ ♪ everybody let's rock ♪ everybody in the whole cell block ♪ was dancing to the jailhouse rock ♪ [music] ♪ >> one looks at the incarceration rates in the united states, there's reason
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for concern. we're incarcerating people over and over again who are committing criminal offenses. >> america is home to the largest number of the freest people in the world. but america is also home to the largest number of imprisoned people in the world. take a look at the stats. item, u.s. prisoners totaled 2.3 million people behind bars today. the 2.3 million is 40% higher than russia, which comes in second and percentage of prisoners per citizen. item, u.s. prisoners, vis-a- vis. we have 25% of all world prisoners. item. u.s. prison and prisoner course. $60 billion a year. that's than the gdp of over 140 countries. item.
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back sliding, sometimes called recidivism. >> senator webb, please sum it up. >> we've got two phenomena here. we're locking up more people on a percen else in the world yet we don't feel any safer. >> question. why does the u.s. have such a huge prison population? clarence? >> the biggest reason lawyers drug and drug related crimes. we had a big explosion from the 1980s. remember the lynn buying acase, the basketball star who died of an overdose? >> we're going to go around the horn again to get outside. should judges really relax their rulings in for instance the marijuana possession? >> you're seeing it happen already. places like california are ceasing -- >> is there any percentage of increase in marijuana usage when there is a soft decision madely a judge?
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does it lead to increased use? >> well, that's an interesting debate, but the sense is no by itself. >> i read no and not afterwards. >> the united states crime rate has stopped going up and down a bit because we incarcerate so many criminals. that's why so many countries in europe have crime rates. >> also, do we have too many laws? >> yes. >> why do we enact all these laws? >> because we've got a huge society and politicians who don't do anything else. >> we have too many politicians to see political opportunity and accusing each other of being easy on crime which is why it's so good jim webb, the original tough guy has taken on the issue of prison reform. we'll be right back with predictions. when planning for retirement these days, the forecast is full of ifs.
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if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity. when the market goes up, it gives your assets a potential to grow. while protecting you if the market goes down with a steady stream of income. let america's number one annuity provider help you stay on course with guarantees for the if in life. get answers about annuities at
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predictions, pat? >> copenhagen's going to produce a mouse. >> eleanor? >> copenhagen's going to give momentum to the green movement in the world. >> okay. go ahead. >> one year from today, thanksgiving 2010, we will be celebrating a republican takeover of the house. >> the reason off-year election will spur a big movement to get young voters out on the part of democrats next year. cnn anchor lou dobbs will challenge robert menendez in the 2012 elections. gobble gobble. have a magnificent thanksgiving. bye-bye.
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Mc Laughlin Group
CBS November 29, 2009 11:30am-12:00pm EST

News/Business. Lively discussion on the week's top news issues.

TOPIC FREQUENCY U.s. 13, Coburn 12, Copenhagen 8, John 7, United States 6, China 6, At&t 5, America 5, India 3, Obama 3, Clarence 2, Michael Crichton 2, Annuities 2, Eleanor 2, Beck 2, Metlife 2, Pat 2, Dr. Coburn 1, Oklahoma 1, California 1
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